Return to the main pageJOY BEHAR SHOWJackson film controversy;
Is the new religion atheist?
October 26, 2009 broadcast
ETTHIS is a hurried transcript.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated.
Host Joey Bihar: Tonight, the controversy over the upcoming Michael Jackson film, "that's it;
"The King may have died, but these royalties live longer.
So, is the new religion atheist?
Pastor Doug Wilson and writer Christopher Higgins will have a heated debate with me.
In addition, he is not a real plumber or a real political strategist.
But that didn't stop him from running for the Republican candidate.
"In the studio with me," Joe the Plumber.
"All this and more will begin now.
Michael Jackson's film "that's it" was released this week and has been controversial.
Jackson's father said physical doubles were used to fake Michael's appearance, and other critics said the film's producers were squeezing the last payday out of Jackson, who died in June.
With me, I discussed Firpo Carr, a friend of the Jackson family and a former spokesman for the Jackson family;
Roger Friedman, publisher and creator of Showbiz411.
Com and Brian Monroe, former editor of Daily magazine, and the person who hosted Jackson's last big American NewsS. interview.
Everyone is welcome.
I want to start with the clip. Take a look. (
Start Video Editing)(
Excerpt from Michael Jackson's "that's it)(END VIDEO CLIP)BEHAR:Ok.
Are you going to see the movie?
Carl Jackson's former spokesman: No. BEHAR:Why not?
Carl: I don't think that's an accurate description of Michael Jackson.
I know that when he did this whole thing he was under coercion and it was not a beautiful picture.
In fact, fans from more than 90 countries around the world have contacted me, and some of them have boycotted me.
Oh, really?
Roger FriedmanCOM:Yes.
Roger, do you think this is the way to celebrate Michael's life? . .
Oh, yes. BEHAR: . . .
Profit from it? FRIEDMAN:Both.
I mean, it will make a profit.
It's okay that the profit will flow to his children.
It will pay off the cost of a concert that didn't happen in London. BEHAR:Right.
But it's also a great way to celebrate Michael's life.
There is nothing wrong with the film.
I noticed the fans. -
There are fans coming together.
You can find conspiracy in any subjectBEHAR:Yes.
Friedman: they want to say that in any case, something has been changed, the music has been changed, and Michael's body has been changed.
No change;
These are the movies made during rehearsal.
They wouldn't have been used to make movies.
They were just taken away.
When Michael died, they realized that they needed some evidence to prove that he was in good shape before he died.
So we got it. . .
Bihar: Okay. FRIEDMAN:. . .
Let's see tomorrow. BEHAR:Yes.
His sister, LaToya, said she wouldn't see it. Listen to this. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: will your family go to the movies together?
La Toya Jackson, Michael Jackson's sister: No.
Man: No, no?
Man: where are you watching a movie?
Jackson: We don't see it.
Man: Yes?
Jackson: Thank you very much.
Oh, okay. (END VIDEO CLIP)BEHAR:Ok.
You know, Firpo, you know the family very well.
What do you think is behind La Toya's refusal to see it?
Carl: Well, there's an open question about how Michael died.
Some people believe that this is not just an accident in this family.
This was premeditated.
This is what many family members think.
Of course you have some. . .
Fred man: Firpo, who is planning?
Sorry if I can finish it. BEHAR:Yes.
Carl: you have some family members who think, oh, no, it's accidental.
But there's some doubt that we haven't-
We haven't got some unresolved questions with answers yet.
So my own idea is, yes, we have some questions here.
I want to answer some questions.
In the meantime, we feel, hey, we will resist it.
We won't see it either.
Joe Jackson, father. . . FRIEDMAN:Yes.
He said the film used body doubles, which he did not like.
The producer reportedly denied this.
FRIEDMAN:Right.
Bihar: Do you think he's trying to get the film out of legitimacy so he can make money out of it?
They said because he didn't make money because it would make money. . . FRIEDMAN:Yes. BEHAR:. . .
Sales between the film and the CD are estimated at $0. 4 billion.
This is a lot of money.
Joe Jackson has been using his son's death.
Tomorrow night, he will charge Michael Jackson fans $3,000 for a ticket to show the film in Las Vegas and come and meet Joe Jackson.
He revised the trailer for the film and used it as an invitation to the film.
So now the trailer says, "Hi, this is Joe Jackson.
Come see my son's movie.
"So the problem is that the family is completely excluded from the will except for the mother and the child.
So the rest of the family got into war because they didn't know what to do.
They don't know how they can make money from it quickly enough before the whole thing dies down. BEHAR:Yes.
They are great exploiters. All of them.
Yes, wait.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, Firpo.
Brian, there are reports that the children want to watch the movie.
What do you think?
Is this a good idea?
Brian Monroe gave Jackson a final interview.
I don't think children should be prevented from watching the movie if they want.
When I was sitting with Michael two years ago, he was carrying his son's blanket.
This is a true relationship between father and son.
I think this is one of Michael's strings in the last few months and last days.
I don't think anyone should stop the kids from watching that movie if they want.
Bihar: How much. . .
Monroe: Michael's image will be positive.
Bihar: But how much profit did the film bring to the children?
Oh, I can tell you. . .
Depending on your number. . .
Bihar: continue. MONROE:. . .
You believe up to 70% to 80%FRIEDMAN:Yes.
Oh, right?
Oh, yes.
Most of them are for the children.
Most of them went to the manor. . .
Carl: most of them are like this, but that's a lot of money.
Most of the property is owned by the children.
This is a lot of money.
I mean, I will. -
I believe there are a lot of people who will be happy to accept 30% of them.
Because 30%-
$0. 4 billion is still a large sum of money.
This is a lot of money. CARR:So it`s --absolutely.
So 70% or 80% of the facts can happen to the children. . . FRIEDMAN:Right. CARR:. . .
It's really secondary.
I mean, yes, they deserve it.
Their father.
Why is this secondary?
What do you mean, this is secondary?
Carl: Well, because, well, I mean, it's very clear.
You have some people who will take back more money than they put in.
That's what the family said.
Bihar: Who is it like? Like who?
Yes. Who is it like?
Like who, AEG and some other companies, Sony.
You have these people. -
To be frank, from what I have learned about sitting there, Michael is not satisfied at some level.
So you have these people who get a lot of money, the family says wait a minute, wait a minute, he doesn't even like you.
But I have to tell you. . . (CROSS TALK)
But they're not--
Don't they do promotions?
Monroe: You see, it's not like it or not. BEHAR:Yes.
Monroe: It's not like it or not. He`s going to. . .
No, no, this is what I'm talking about. . .
Look, he will. . .
BEHAR: one at a time.
Guys, guys.
I have to control it. . .
Let me finish here. . .
Yes, go.
Monroe: there will be a lot of money to make out of the music. The 100 or so. . . BEHAR:Right. MONROE:. . .
Single not released yet.
It may go to those children or to his mother and family.
Agree, agree.
BEHAR: Well, actually, it's not a possible problem because it's left to them.
This is for them.
Bihar: that's it.
You're right.
BEHAR: So don't you think the family is a little pissed off for not getting any money? CARR:Sure. . .
Maybe that's why they don't want to watch the movie.
Isn't this a possible Firpo?
Yes, it's possible, but know the family like I do, they don't think so. FRIEDMAN:Why?
They have lived on Michael Jackson for years.
Our brother--
If I can finish--
Our brother was exploited.
Our brother?
By the time it all happened, he was already exploited.
Yes, his brothers and sisters will say our brothers, yes.
Our brother was exploited.
I'm not saying I am. we already know, Roger.
Please reason here.
Not only that, but the parents also said that our son was exploited.
Yes, other relatives say our cousin or uncle is being exploited.
Friedman: But how can he be exploited if all the money is given to his children?
Yes, he's gone. How did he get exploited?
How did he get exploited? CARR:He was --
That's what they said.
He was exploited while practicing. . . BEHAR:Alive.
When they pushed him.
It was reported that when they said someone said, hey, look, Michael couldn't do that, he was exploited.
He himself, I heard a tape and he said himself, hey, I can't do that much.
Bihar: OK, but no. . . CARR:. . .
Well, guess, hey, listen, throw him some chicken and put him on the fat.
It is reported that I will take him to the stage if I have.
Bihar: that's what you said. . .
Who said it?
Hey, a minute ago. . .
Carl: there are some on the tape. . .
No one said that.
Yes, I'm sorry.
BEHAR: Are you saying the kids should get 70% and the rest should go to the rest of the Jackson family?
Is that what you mean?
Carl: No, not at all, not at all.
So who should get another 30%?
Carl: I'm not--
I'm talking about some of them. -some of that --
Whatever Roger Friedman says, it's not money that they care about.
It's about our brother. He is dead.
I think the whole--
This does not exist in the whole equation.
Okay, let me make this clear.
Because they're depressed. . .
Okay, wait, wait.
Bihar: Wait a minute.
He was exploited during the filming of this thing.
They don't like it. CARR:Right.
So they don't want to give money to the kids? I don`t get it.
Carl: No, they don't want to spend money on people who are reportedly exploiting them. . . (CROSS TALK)
Friedman: Well, you know this guy is going to keep talking. CARR:. . .
He was reportedly used by these people.
Bihar: Please have Brian talk about it, Firpo.
CARR:Yes, sure.
BEHAR: Thank you. Go ahead.
Monroe: You see, before that, this kind of quarrel created a lot of tension in the family.
I think at the end of the day, let his kids, let his fans enjoy Michael for his artist in the last movie.
Friedman: That's right.
Monroe: was it cut? Was it edited? I must have.
A lot of his stuff.
But that will be the impression many of us have of Michael Jackson.
Finally, let Michael's Image continue through the film.
Bihar: Well, some of his fans and others are obviously Firpo and others. . . CARR:Yes. BEHAR:. . .
Said promoters covered up his health. . . CARR:Thank you. BEHAR:. . .
When he died, he was judged to be healthy.
Autopsy showed. . .
Friedman: he's healthy.
The autopsy showed that he was in good health. BEHAR:. . .
Everything was fine except that his nose was missing and I still find it strange.
FRIEDMAN:Right.
Well, one thing I told you. . .
Friedman: Well, they have a lot of extra noses.
Bihar: what's going on?
You must have heard something.
If so, don't believe everything you read. . . --
Friedman: Well, he's very sensitive to grindstone.
When you talk-
You see, this is disrespectful.
There is some respect for the deceased, please.
Bihar: So, if these people say, Firpo, if these people say he's over-working and not in good health while doing this thing, so I think we can use murder as a reason for his death, right? (CROSS TALK)CARR:No. No, no, no.
You may be overworked. -
I think she said Firpo. just a moment.
Monroe: go ahead.
Carl: you can find someone who is overworked and then someone who was murdered after that.
As a statement, they are not mutually exclusive. (CROSS TALK)
What do you think?
The natural reason or murder?
What do you think?
Monroe: Do I think there are a lot of people who have any problems with Michael's death?
From doctors to music companies and promotion companies.
At the end of the day, Michael was responsible for his actions, but was also a victim of those around him who wanted to use him.
BEHAR: Thank you.
Roger, you say the last thing because we don't have much time.
Roger: First of all, no one wants Michael Jackson to die.
There is no conspiracy to kill him, and there is no conspiracy to let him fall, so that people can control his property.
This is nonsense.
Bihar: The coroner identified his death as a murder case. Dr.
Conrad Murray may be charged with manslaughter.
His death was a murder case. (CROSS TALK)BEHAR:Dr.
Murray won't get any money from Michael's estate because he killed him.
He may have accidentally killed him, probably because he was given P. C. That`s it. That`s it.
These companies have nothing to do with the matter. BEHAR:Ok. Thanks, guys.
Next, are you okay without God? Come on back. (
Business break)
BEHAR: The New York City subway ad re-sparked a debate in the United States about religion and God.
I think it will be a perfect time to get the stars of collision to participate in a new documentary about religion and atheism.
Christopher Hitchins. Claim Against
The author of God is not great.
Pastor Douglas Wilson, evangelist and writer.
Welcome to the show.
I watched this movie. I like this movie very much.
Very, very interesting.
I don't want you two to re-discuss the debate. Ok?
Because I want you to show me where you are and where the people who watch the show are.
Because, you know-ok.
Let's start with you.
Pastor, can you simply give me a case of God?
Pastor Douglas Wilson, evangelist and author: OK.
God is there.
Wilson: one of the things I want to do is ask where your starting point is.
Who has the burden of proof?
So, is there a burden of proof for Ford Motor that there is Henry Ford or that there is no Henry Ford?
Who has the burden of proof?
Indeed, much of this debate is scrambling to find out who must prove it.
Who is responsible for the maintenance work?
Who will bear the burden of proof? Now, for. . .
Who do you think will bear the burden?
Wilson: I believe the man who denies himself.
It is an obvious fact that God exists and created the world, and I think that is the person who has the burden of proof.
Bihar: You said it was self. evident? WILSON:Yes.
It goes without saying to those people. . .
To those who believe?
People who believe.
Those who don't believe-
If you watch the movie collision, it's like watching the Olympic diving competition.
The Romanian judge gave a completely different score.
2, 10, you know.
So, it's a debate where atheists will go and think Christopher will take the day with him.
Believers go to debate, they think Christians. . . BEHAR:Right.
Christopher, you said there might be no solution.
Christopher hitchens, special editor for Vanity Fair: I think there is one.
I can't take advantage of the almost beautiful cycle of Pastor Wilson's argument.
I do not want to bear any burden of proof.
It seems to me that if someone says that I might be punished forever if I don't agree with them.
Snakes speak, virgins have children, and dead people walk;
Very claimed (INAUDIBLE)evidence.
The atheist is not saying that we cannot prove this without God.
We said there was never any evidence.
There has never been a compelling philosophical argument that such an entity exists.
In fact, we say there is no supernatural dimension.
The natural world is much more exciting. (CROSS TALK)
Bihar: But you don't ---
Pastor, you really don't believe that the snake can speak or that Noah has all these animals on board, do you?
I believe in the Bible. I am a Christian.
So I believe in the Bible.
Bihar: It sounds like you're too smart to believe.
I understand your faith.
But those animals-
Are all the animals on board? Come on.
Come on, we--
We are animals. we talk.
Hitins: That's the truth. We`re primates.
We talked about it. BEHAR:Yes.
Hitins: By the way, this is what the Presbyterian Church used to say that we are not primates.
Now everyone agrees.
We agree that we are evolved, and we agree that the universe is created by an explosion, which we may not have thought.
We are probably not the object of divine design.
It may be more modest to think we are not.
Bihar: Okay.
Wilson: One thing I want to stick to is that Christians don't make any progress by trying to distinguish between faith and non-faith.
If you have distrust and faith, and you separate the difference, you will get a chaotic form of faith or a chaotic form of distrust.
In order for people to accept the Bible, I am not interested in diluting the Bible. BEHAR:Yes.
So, if I were a Christian, then I would do what Jesus said, and believe in what he taught, and so on.
Christians should do so.
What about this idea of Jesus, Christopher?
I took it. you don't buy it?
Hitins: I don't think he's the son of God.
Don't you know?
I don't think his mother is-
I don't think his mother is a virgin, and I don't think he's dead, raised.
Bihar: No.
Higgins: No.
By the way, even if he is any of these things, he will only die mysteriously with many other mythical figures in the ordinary virgin birth, miraculous circumstances.
Even if it can be proved, it will not prove ---
This does not prove that his doctrine is true, nor does it prove that his doctrine is moral, nor does it prove that his doctrine is moral.
Would you be surprised to know that Einstein might believe in God?
This is strange.
Higgins: I know the opposite is true. (CROSS TALK)
Hitchins: It sounds very, very clear that he is a pantheist or a naturalist.
He does not believe in the God of the individual, and does not believe in the God of religion.
He does not believe that God will interfere in human affairs, will pray, will stand aside in the war. BEHAR:Yes.
This is very interesting.
Hitchins: no matter what you eat or who he has sex.
Bihar: there is a kind of self
Absorbing the God of the sky is watching my thoughts, especially doing my show now.
This is a bit strange.
Do you believe it?
Do you think he's looking at you now?
Jesus said God numbered the hair on our heads. It`s not just. . .
Bihar: So is Google. WILSON:Yes. Is there self-
Absorption? BEHAR:Yes.
Wilson: this is the most fundamental problem.
Of course, you can trust a omniscient God and believe it in a way that pleases you.
There are all kinds of believers who accept the doctrine that God knows everything, number your hair and do it by themselves
Flattering way, selfabsorbed way.
Yes, it did happen.
But if you think right, it's also something that will humble you. It makes you --
It helps to put everything in the right angle.
This makes you too modest.
It makes you a servant, that is, I am only a plaything of God's will.
Bihar: Wait a minute.
We will be back.
I want to hear more about the Ten Commandments and whether we really need the Ten Commandments to be good people. Hang on tight.
We will do more when we come back. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Higgins: did we create it? -
Sick? According to (INAUDIBLE)
This is for freedom, for inquiry, for science.
This is an evil cult and it's time for you to leave it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Bihar: that's Christopher Hitchins defending Hitchins's atheism against Pastor Douglas Wilson in a documentary, collision.
I'm back with the star debater.
Let's talk about the Ten Commandments, for example.
Do we really need Ten Commandments to be good people?
I know not to kill people.
I don't need to be raised to know this even though I am a Catholic. WILSON:Right.
Part of the problem we have is that we are instilled in the Ten Commandments.
For centuries, the principle of the Ten Commandments, then we kicked the ladder away.
I climbed so high and kicked the ladder off and said see how high we are.
I don't think it's self.
Obviously you should not murder or commit adultery. . .
Bihar: What did people do before the Ten Commandments?
They won't kill people, they won't kill everyone, or we won't be here.
WILSON: look at the crime rate.
If sin disappears overnight, if someone brandims a magic wand and sin disappears, our economy will collapse. We are. . .
Bihar: What do you think? Chris?
Higgins: I don't need to say anything.
I have something more difficult to say.
BEHAR:Go ahead.
First of all, this story is not true.
Wandering in the desert, exile-
This is a Jewish version of Christian mythology, worse than a snake.
Confucius 'Anas wrote it a long time ago, telling people what the golden rule is ---
Don't do things to others that you don't want to do to yourself.
The first three or four commandments are saying, "you must be afraid of the person you love . "-
They are not all moral. Then the (INAUDIBLE)are self-evident. Don`t kill --
Don't kill people, don't steal, and don't commit perjury.
Then others put women on the level of the beast and say they are one of the movable property of your neighbor, and you cannot covet it.
This is a tribal agriculture in the Bronze Age. . . (CROSS TALK)
Wilson: We look at this from another perspective.
Take the code of Rabbi hanur and Confucius anashi as an example. . .
BEHAR: An Eye for an eye.
WILSON: An eye-to-eye, an eye-to-tooth revenge, because it used to be the eye of this life, a tooth of life.
In order to prevent the escalation of these things from being out of control, strict justice has been implemented.
The reason you have military and police departments enforcing all of this code is that people do not naturally and spontaneously abide by it.
What did you say to that Chris?
Hitins: it endured (INAUDIBLE).
There is no commandment against genocide, no commandment against slavery ---
It was common at the time.
Precepts that parents should not respect-
A little better for their children. Why is this?
Because in the next chapter,
The child of this terrible god, known as the man of enforcement, will be ordered to carry out genocide against the Malachi, media and Moabites;
They will be ordered to enslave them, and they will be ordered to kill all their children in the name of God above.
Bihar: that's not very good.
This is not very Christian.
This is all about relativity.
By the way, what I read somewhere, I saw ---
By the way, this is a wonderful movie and I will keep working hard for you.
Wilson: It's good for you.
You got spanked.
It's not very good to beat the child's ass.
Why do you think this is a Christian thing?
I'm the kind of kid who needs it.
That's what all the kids say, but they don't. -
It's wrong to beat the child's ass.
This is not Christianity.
You will like it. BEHAR:I know.
Great influence.
Thank you, Pastor Wilson, Christopher.
Collision premiered in New York and Los Angeles on Wednesday. A. Thursday.
DVD is available exclusively on Amazon. com.
We will be back in a minute. (
Business break)
BEHAR: True to the United States, the so-called mother
Known as the balloon boy, she apparently admitted that she and her husband, Richard Hahn, had planned for my child to be in the air and that we were not able to get him to give up plans that drew national attention almost two years ago.
Clinical psychologist Jeff gardree also joined me.
David Schwartz, a criminal defense lawyer.
Former prosecutor Lisa PintoHi, Lisa.
She's somewhere outside. Okay.
Now, David, let's start with you.
It's been 11 days.
They seem to have received confession from their mother.
Why are we waiting for prosecution?
David Schwartz, a criminal defense lawyer: So we seem to have an argument.
You know, in this case, the mother did not confess very early.
We don't know what it is.
Many times these confessions are forced.
To be honest, there is a lot of pressure on your peers.
There is tremendous social pressure to make some kind of statement.
We don't know what she said.
Bihar: So, what's the point of pleading guilty?
Schwartz: It's not easy.
Because we don't know what she admits, this is a real gray area.
Maybe she admitted something.
Of course, unless we see the whole statement, it is the police who wrote the statement, not the person who made the statement.
Former PRSECUTOR Lisa Pinto: it's time to take the kids away.
Bihar: Lisa, Lisa, why are they not filing Mayumi for nothing? Lisa?
Pinto: I think one of the federal charges is that they are-
He lied to the FAA.
I think the FBI is trying to take the time to make sure they have the recordings.
Local allegations, they need to get full statements from the children, it's not clear if we have those.
But the problem here is, let's lock the kids up.
Enough.
He asked them to lie to the authorities and hide them in the attic, not to mention that he had them floating in the balloon.
The police came to the house due to domestic violence.
He has a criminal record for vandalism.
Not a safe place.
What do you know? Just--
Today's news says Roman Polanski, accused of under 13year-
If he had returned to the United States a few years ago, he would have returned to the United States two years ago.
For some reason, they will take the children away and put these people in jail, and these people don't seem to be equal to me. What about -
Jeff, what do you think?
Clinical psychologist Jeff gardree: Well, I don't think it's equal.
Look, we know this is a very dysfunctional family and the kids should definitely consider the child welfare officer's investigation.
Lisa, we can't just say that. take the baby.
We don't know what's going on.
What we know is Richard Heene, Mayumi Heene, who are not model parents.
They told the children to lie.
When you put all the other things together, the charges of domestic violence, in the past, of course, Richard seems to have some kind of very brief anger, some real impulse control issues ---
Yes, I saw him on wife exchange.
"He must have a problem with anger.
By the way, so did she. GARDERE:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Lisa, why do you want to take the baby away so soon?
Isn't this a bit of a gun jump?
I don't think these children are in danger. This family --
Parents are willing to do anything to promote themselves on TV.
They met at the performance school.
I think the children are an aid to their self and ambition.
I don't mean to bring the children happy forever.
But when they get a chance to talk about what's really going on, let them at least be with a safe relative.
Lisa, I know you're working for the kids, but, if you put the kids with the foster parents and then they have to come back to those parents, what would be the psychological harm to them?
You see, maybe what they did was a criminal.
What they do is crime.
But they didn't kill anyone. (CROSSTALK)
Schwartz: Let me have a legal discussion on this issue.
One thing I said.
We don't just take our children away in this country.
We're not just catching--wait asecond.
We just don't grab kids from our parents and take them away like Lisa Pinto.
This requires a complete process.
Lisa, a hearing is needed here.
David, I'm not saying--(CROSSTALK)
Behind what you said is-
I don't know.
Lisa, go ahead.
What do you want to say? PINTO:I just --
Everyone is accusing me of putting them with Gustav's foster parents.
All I want is a psychiatrist.
Gardrey talks to them in an atmosphere that is not forced, in which we can really understand the lifestyle of the two cooperatives and the way they can and care for them, love
School sports before voting
This is her point of view and she has the right to do so.
Do you think that if one of them comes up with the idea of a prank, the other person will face tougher charges?
Guardian: This is a legal issue that you will raise.
But I have to tell you, I'm really glad Richard Heene had a real problem.
I believe he led all this.
I believe it may be his idea, it's just my opinion.
I think everyone else is scared of this guy.
I think this man with his wrath, you know, he might be a little bit of a furtive and manic if you ask me, and I think they're afraid of him.
Schwartz: But to answer your question, if you are 1% involved in this scam, you are guilty of the whole act.
That's what the law says.
Gardrey: legally, mentally, if she is emotionally an abusive woman and follows his leadership, then she should not do the same as he did.
Bihar: Okay. PINTO:Guys --
Lisa, Lisa, wait.
I want to change gears.
A second lawsuit has been filed against self.
Help James Arthur Ray. Listen to this.
You may know the story.
Because in Sedona, Arizona, you run a hotel on the back of the sweat stream lodge.
There are 21 people in total. hour so-
Known as the "purification ceremony", the temperature reached 120 degrees and three people died.
Please note that there are no restrictions on people now.
He just dissuaded them from leaving the sweatbox.
So how guilty is he?
Schwartz: First of all, there will be civil proceedings from the perspective of civil proceedings.
As you said, from a criminal point of view, he does not actually bind these people.
People must take ownership of their actions.
You know, people must have a common sense.
You can't live 120-
If your body can't accept it, take off the oil.
Obviously, some people can accept it.
Some people can't.
Pinto: I bet $9,000 hot spring vacationfor your lock in Arizona at 400-
A square foot tent and a guy hit you.
When you try to help others-
Are you there?
Pinto: you said these people need help, no, but I read the report first. handreports.
Schwartz: Don't look at so many reports.
He won't let people leave.
Okay, David, let me make it up.
That's what defense lawyers say.
Schwartz: No, no. -
That's why we have testimony.
Okay, okay, one at a time.
Guardian: This is a deal.
He did not bind anyone physically. We know that.
However, we are talking about people with emotional problems.
These people may be tired of life.
Of course, they are not bankrupt.
Not $9,000 nuggets.
Bihar: When you put in $9,000 ---
Tortured and abused by this guy?
GARDERE: Yes, so that they can go to the next level of life, so that they can find meaning in life, and so on.
But what we're talking about is people who may be down at this point.
So when he makes this suggestion as a semi-divine, you can make it strong because they are emotionally risky and they will accept it.
It was a perfect storm.
Yes, but no one is there to protect these people from their own stupidity?
Guardian: there is a nurse there, and even though the nurse is dealing with physical problems, the nurse should also deal with psychological problems and say wait a minute.
These people are unstable. now they are under the illusion of being hot.
Bihar: Let's go, Lisa.
Pinto: he should be charged with manslaughter in reckless acts that killed two people. He told --
People who can't move when they want to help others outside the tent, he says, you can't move them, and I'll talk about that later.
If it's not reckless, I don't know what it is.
He hasn't been interviewed by the sheriff's office yet, which I find shocking.
Connect him with his lawyer and talk to him.
Find out what his theory is about having 60 people in a 160-degree tent. -(CROSSTALK)
Schwartz: Wait, wait. -
Let him in and talk to him?
The country has constitutional rights.
He will be the target of the investigation.
You can't get him in and talk to him.
Come on, David. let's be here.
You can ask his lawyer.
This is a hidden guy.
He should be the leader.
Spiritual leader.
However, he went into hiding and said in a statement that I knew it didn't look very good and that I should lead others and I didn't lead by example.
But that's what I need to do.
Schwartz: The facts need to be analyzed.
Guardian: half God-(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: There's a fun place to stay when they're in the sweat lodge.
They screamed and drank water, threw up and fainted.
Sounds like my honeymoon.
Why don't they help each other? Because --
Why don't they help each other?
They tried it.
Schwartz: they don't show any common sense.
If someone does not help-(CROSSTALK)
They could have gone out. (CROSSTALK)
GARDERE: Joy, there is also a group infection in terms of thinking.
You know, they're saying ifCROSSTALK)
If you drink Kool-
They said to each other, we must follow each other's team.
At this point, there is no conscience within the group.
So they're just doing what the voice tells them.
Pinto: some are faint.
Some of them have actually been eliminated.
We have no objection, Lisa.
It's dangerous and people don't learn anything from Jim Jones. (CROSSTALK)
One more thing, James Arthur Ray, I don't believe people with three children.
I agree with you that there are three names.
Hello, Lee Harvey Oswald.
James Earl, what's his face? (CROSSTALK)
James Earl Ray.
Maybe part of the same family.
Schwartz: we must analyze the facts.
Mary Taylor Moore.
This is how it continues. Oh, god.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Bihar: Well, Sam woolzbakker, you might know him better as a plumber. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
I am going to buy a company with an annual income of $250,000, $270,000, $280,000.
Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?
What happens next--
If you are a small business, you can get a 50% tax credit first.
So your health care tax has been cut. -
You actually cut taxes on this. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, everyone remembers the campaign record when a new media star was born.
He was elected the unofficial mascot of the Republican Party.
But he's gone since then, forgive me, Rogue.
Now I am with this man, himself, Samuel, who is with the plumber. Hi Joe.
Samuel warzerbach: Hello. How are you? BEHAR:Or Sam.
What should I call you?
My name is Samuel Joseph worth Bach.
My middle name.
Yeah, but you're not a plumber, are you?
I mean, it's weird, isn't it?
I'm really a plumber.
Just no license in Ohio.
As far as the mainstream is concerned, they have this part that needs to be corrected --
But no, I used to teach in the Army.
I ran from Alaska and Arizona.
In Bihar, Okinawa: you were knocked down.
Is that what they said? I love it.
You know, these T. E.
Party to go. T-e-
The tax on behalf of A is enough.
Yes, it's far beyond that.
Bihar: Yes, but in April, you were T. E.
The party at Fond du Lac in Wisconsin, you're actually protesting George Bush's tax code. Not Obama`s.
Do you know?
They actually bring a lot of different speakers.
I was there to talk about common sense and a good and powerful myth about being an American, Democrat, or Republican.
So I can't sit there and talk about Fond du Lac.
I actually sing on land.
Sean Kennedy and I are in Atlanta.
Okay, I know you can't talk every day. E. A party.
But that special T. E. A party.
It impressed me because it was stupid for me because they were the spokesmen for Obama, but it was really about Bush.
Well, that's the point. The T. E.
The party movement against Obama.
This is about the government and how they go beyond their boundaries.
Bihar: Yes, but Bush is the one who really forgot us, and that's why you are in this position.
Vozerbach: Oh, you won't get my argument.
This is not just because we are in this position.
I mean either Freddy Mack or Freddy May or Fanny Mack call these people and I mean there are many reasons why we are in this position.
All this has to do with "R" and "D"
"They don't really represent the American people.
North Hal: Republicans and Democrats. OK.
And now you're not rich.
As far as I know, you made $40,000 in 2006.
Now that you're a media star, maybe you're making money now.
No.
Actually, I--
I believe in capitalism, but in moral principles.
I turned down a lot of things because it wasn't something I could sit and do, look at myself in the mirror, or teach my son the right way to grow up.
So I'm not rich so far.
I am famous or notorious if you like, but not rich.
BEHAR: However, in that clip and the rest of what I 've seen, you're basically arguing that people who earn more than $250,000 a year shouldn't be taxed more than they 've been taxed.
Obama is talking about 36% to 39%.
This is almost 3% jump.
Warzerbach: 3% or 0. 5%.
The bottom line is-
Why are you worried about people making so much money?
What is it for you?
You're like a reverse Robin Hood.
Vozeerbach: there is no right or wrong with it, it is necessary to put it.
What gives the government the right to decide that you make too much money?
I mean, sooner or later they will say that $175,000 is too much, $150,000.
Once you add a number to the rich, the rich are relative.
I mean, usually, you know, someone who makes more money than I do is rich ---
In New York City, $250,000 is nothing here. I mean --
That's right.
Like Los Angeles.
So I mean, then your small business really got the lead because, I mean, their net income is $250,000, but you're not saying that they have to pay all the different insurance for all the different, the compensation for the workers.
There are so many--
You're talking about moral code.
During the Bush administration, he gave tax cuts to the rich. does this bother you?
Are you in trouble?
I was troubled by their work for themselves.
I didn't answer your question, yes, it really bothered me.
But that's why I'm the biggest supporter of fair tax.
Fair taxes are actually fair.
Elites, politicians, Republicans, and Democrats don't want to have anything to do with it, because I mean, the IRS, it's a very, what is the word I want?
They spent a lot of money.
There are many lobbyists outside. -
Bihar: But in order to keep the roads open, you have to pay taxes to pay for the police station, the Fire Department.
It is a moral obligation for Americans to pay service fees. Don't you agree?
Absolutely.
Some people say that taxes are evil.
I mean, they're not evil.
You have to pay taxes.
Yes, but why shouldn't the rich pay these taxes?
They make more money.
They benefit from society?
That's why we need to talk about fair taxes and take it out.
Many people like it.
It will level the game ground.
It will create millions of jobs.
If the government does not rob Peter, Paul and Mary, it will stimulate the economy.
BEHAR: Well, I 've seen you in other interviews as well, where you talk about socialism.
You are afraid of socialism.
I have also read several times that your family is enjoying benefits.
It's a kind of socialist welfare, isn't it?
I believe in social projects. There`s -
I'm not a monster, I mean everyone wants to paint me with the Republican Party.
To be honest, I am almost an enemy against the Republican Party if you like.
I'm a registered Republican.
Shortly after Reagan took office, I was 18. -BEHAR:Why?
If you don't like what Republicans say, why do you vote for them?
I registered as a Republican.
I vote across parties.
I vote for the best interests of the United States, not necessarily the best interests of my party.
The Republican Party must have lost its way.
BEHAR: they have been lost for years.
But don't you object to Medicaid, health insurance, Social Security?
Wozerbach: Good fraud, waste and medical insurance for abusegoring, Medicaidis is just ridiculous.
BEHAR: there is a waste in every project.
Of course, but I mean, our government has become a bureaucracy.
They are too big and clumsy.
I mean, we really need to pull things back and go back to the basic principles of our Constitution.
If we can get away with it
Then we're done.
Then tell Dick Cheney.
In an interview, you were asked about homosexuality.
It bothers me.
I like you so far, but it annoys me.
You still think I'm wrong. Homosexuality.
People do not understand this dictionary, which is called "strange and unusual ".
It's not like slander, it's like you call white people ahonky or something like that.
You also say you don't want your child to be close to homosexuality.
Now that you equate pedophile with gay, you find that 70% of pedophile is heterosexual.
Sorry, how did you define it?
I mean, if a man-
What do you define?
You're talking about their existence. -hold on.
Let's back up for a second.
When I spoke in the interview, I made a point because my point is not necessarily public policy, just as other politicians think their point needs to be public policy.
This is the whole interview.
For now, they are asking me a summary of the questions.
When it comes to homosexuality, how can you sit there and say they're straight?
I mean they sit there and play, you know one sit there and play 7-year-
How's he doing, old boy?
Bihar: if he abused the child, it was a pedophile --
Vozeerbach: with the same identity?
Bihar: Straight-
No, but that's not the point.
That's the point for me.
Bihar: if he abandons a child, it's pedophile.
Not because he's gay or straight.
There is a paedophile, which is an act in which Paedophile goes to a foreign girl or boy because there is power to control the child.
This is not about sex.
It's like rape, Joe. It`s like rape.
It's about power.
I understand that.
This is not about homosexuality.
Homosexuality happens to be a tendency for some people, and I don't think it's an option, do I?
In fact, yes, I believe this is an option.
Bihar: Why did you choose this when people like you denigrate them?
I have not slandered anyone.
If you equate homosexuality with pedophile, you're slapping them.
WURZELBACHER: If you follow up most of the time in the interview, I have some gay friends, two of whom died from AIDS.
I'm not against it, but it's not my way of life.
As an American, I can have such a view without being punished for it.
I serve my country.
Bihar: Listen to Samuel, you can have your little gear, you will be punished as much as my opinion, and I will be punished for it.
It's right there. we'll be back soon. (
Business break)(
Start Video Editing)
Joe was with us today. Where is Joe.
Is Joe with us today?
I thought you were here today. All right.
You're all plumbers, Joe, so you all stand up and say--I thank you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Joe and I came back.
He's here now.
In any case, where is he--
Where is Joe the Plumber? Where is he?
I actually had pancakes in a restaurant, Schmukers.
In Schmuckers? Yeah. Okay.
This is a nice little mom and pop music station. Great pancakes.
Yes, yes. I know you're standing up, too.
Let's see you. -
Some of your routines.
I did it for charity.
BEHAR:Whatever. (
Start Video Editing)
I really enjoyed going to my bathroom.
I poured three ships with saffron in it.
But at the same time, I also asked my concubines to work for me. tissue massage.
Oh my God, I miss it so much. (END VIDEO CLIP)BEHAR:OK.
This is the most interesting celebrity in the Washington race.
You're not a celebrity.
You're not, you know, a Washington guy.
Do you think you're interesting?
No. No, actually --
A good friend of mine wrote it to me.
Best of all, I claim to be the same half-brother of Karl ROV.
My name is Francis w. Rove.
My girlfriend missed my girlfriend, Mary Van grad Voster.
You know, just play Joe the Plumber and be a rich Republican if you want.
In the end, it was set up for a charity, a child.
Oh, we will all make a fool of our children.
Hey my 15 minutes, make good use of it and I will definitely do it.
Bihar: At this point, do you agree with the father of the balloon boy because he is 15 minutes away from the game.
No, I don't know.
This is not what I'm looking.
No, don't you search?
Come on, Joe.
I call you Joe, but you call me Sam.
It's driving me crazy.
This is Samuel Joseph. For the first --
Okay, my name is Josephine Victoria.
You call me Joey.
How about life?
That's right.
In the first 15 years of my life, I thought my name was Joey.
But not actually. -
This is a good joke.
Vazerbach: That's the truth.
That's the truth, no, I came to your show because I wanted to talk about T. E.
Let people know that this is a real deal, not a Republican movement, nor an extra turf.
BEHAR: But I read that these things are set up by these agents of the Republican Party.
Absolutely.
What are the benefits?
When all these people with agendas are organized, it is not from the grass-roots level.
If you think about it, I mean a lot of things on the left are organized as well.
I went through quite a bit of opposition because union members were paid to organize and argue what was said there. Now some --
Many Republicans will seize and try to use the technology. E.
Party movement for their benefit
This is where Americans need to stand firm, let them know first that we are not Republicans, followed by Americans, and third, Republicans and Democrats, and we will not do this again.
Bihar: Okay, what's with T? E.
Like President Obama's apartment?
Well, this is not an issue for President Obama.
Bihar: What is he doing, what is he doing now.
WURZELBACHER: Well, look at what it is, though.
Not President Obama.
It's about Congress.
It's a simple fact that Republicans and Democrats have played a lot of what he said/said without real work.
Actually, they are more than you are on TV.
This is impossible.
Vozerbach: There are many more stars.
Well, it's like "The days we live" on the mountain these days ".
This is absolutely ridiculous. Americans are tired. we need to go back to the basic principles of the Constitution. Follow that. That`s what T. E. A.
The parties are all about.
Bihar: Okay, who do you want to see running on 2012?
Vozeerbach: no one is concerned--
Do you want Sarah Palin Torun?
I like Sarah Palin very much. I met her --
Do you think she has the ability?
Absolutely capable.
Yes, no, I think she's a great woman. Did you write a book for her? Come on.
WURZELBAHCER: none.
Bihar: Joe uzelbakir-
Am I right?
You're right.
Thank you for coming with me tonight.
This is my pleasure.
Thank you for watching.
Good evening everyone.